Old White Meeting House Committee

Town of South Hero
Meeting House – Preserve & Revitalize Project

Date: TUESDAY, Nov 15, 2022
Time: 3:30 PM In person at Town Office or via ZOOM – Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83188908974?pwd=QXRzSlFiVFpQK3dseERna2tlUzZDQT09

Attendees:David Carter-Chair, Michael Carroll, Robin Way, Pamela Surprenant, Beth Curtis, Mary Harwood, Terry Robinson, Sandy Gregg. Via ZOOM: Sarah Kjelleren, Emily Klofft- Northwest Regional Planning Commission, Linda Seavey
Absent: Carol Tremble
Public: none

1. Called to order at 3:35 by David C.

2. Funds & Financial Reports
• P. Surprenant, South Hero Foundation Treasurer, reported a balance of $11,060.05 in the Foundation’s account. (This does not include two very recent stock donations that total ~$12,000. These donations will show up in the next treasurer’s report.)
• There was no report from the Town.
• A Motion was made by Terry R. to authorize payment of Mary Harwood Consultant invoice #188, 11/3/2022 in the amount of $1,455 (includes time spent on: Bruhn Grant, progress reports, fall mailing, presentation at Grand TIsle Lake House, conference call with Christine Graham, website updates, and several meetings). Seconded by Sandy G., the vote was unanimous. David C. will give the invoice to Town Treasurer, Kim Julow for payment.

3. Grant(s) Updates –
• Mary H. reported it does not look favorable for South Hero’s to receive a grant through the Agency of Commerce & Community Development (ACCD) – Community Recovery and Revitalization Program: Due to the recently released narrow eligible types of projects the State has identified. Therefore, our projected grant amount of $400,00 is in severe jeopardy. More information on this grant will be forth coming at this Friday’s walk-through with State representatives.
• Letters of support are still needed from; the Selectboard, Planning Commission, Historical Society, Granny’s Attic. Sandy G. will follow up.
• Grant Administrator & Clerk of the Works still needed. These positions should be paid. Not tasked as yet.
• Project Timeline still needed. Should start to rough out one with worst case scenarios. Not tasked yet.
• Friday, Nov 18 Walk-through at 9:30 AM with A. Julow to include: Caitlin Corking-Division of Historic Preservation, Ben Doyle-Pres. Preservation Trust of Vermont, Natalie Elvidge-Northern Borders Regional Commission. All the Grannies have been invited. Emily K. will be in attendance also.

3. Old Business
• Emily Klofft.-NRPC reported: She will continue to update the committee on progress of the amended grant contract with Patrick at VCDP. The amendment to the A&S contract has been signed by both the Town and A&S.
• Construction documents for Phase #1 will be ready by Jan 1,2023. Probably will take until June 2023 to hear back from the NPS. Going out to bid will take another 3 weeks. We should focus on what we can accomplish in the meantime. Example: ID distinctive features to include in the addition such as wainscot, tin ceiling etc.
• E. Klofft estimated construction docs for phases 2 and 3 would cost 10% of the project or $100,000.

4. New Business:
• BOND VOTE: David C. reported that the Selectboard authorized the Town to engage Bond Attorney Thomas Melloni-Paul Frank & Collins, PC, 1 Church St. #500 Burlington, VT 05401 802-658-2311. There was brief discussion about who would pay the bond attorney.
Sandy G. stated that since it is the Town’s building and the Town is engaging the bond attorney the payment to cover this should come out of the Town’s Legal budget line and NOT the funds donated to actually build the building. This will need to be decided quickly.
Bond Facts: 1. 20 year bond at ~4.5% = $75,000 per year to be paid by the Town.
2. Taxpayer impact: $15.10 per $100,000 lister value for 20 years.
Example: if your house is valued at $500,000 it would be $75.50 per year.
3. Bond Attorney would write the Article to go to vote.
PR campaign required starting after Thanksgiving.
• Linda S. asked what other Bond measures are going to be on the ballot. David C. responded
a new FireTruck: 2 yr taxpayer impact of $140,000 per year.
• ARPA Funds: Salt shed: $100,000
Meeting House $100,000
Money saved from paving budget projected for next year
• Reminder: If interested parties desire information about the project direct them to the website: www.SouthHeroMeetingHouse.org this site has the design plans, notes from the walk-through with Alex Tolstoi etc.
• Photos of Building in current condition: Sarah K. volunteered to meet with Sandy G. to document details of the current state of the building (ceilings, windows, doors etc.). They will get together after Thanksgiving.
• Report received by Lyssa Papazian-Historic Preservation Consultant: Historic Preservation Report Phase 1 Stabilization & Preliminary Phase 2 Rehabilitation & Addition. Sandy G. will email the report to all (32 pages). See attached…

5. Public Comment – none

6. Next Meeting – Tuesday, Dec 6 at 3:30 PM at the Town Office.

7. Adjourned at 4:35

Respectfully submitted by,
Sandy Gregg, Scribe

Town of South Hero
Meeting House – Preserve & Revitalize Project

Date: TUESDAY, Oct 18, 2022
Time: 3:30 PM In person at Town Office or via ZOOM – Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83188908974?pwd=QXRzSlFiVFpQK3dseERna2tlUzZDQT09

Attendees:David Carter-Chair, Michael Carroll, Robin Way, Pamela Surprenant, Beth Curtis, Mary Harwood, Sandy Gregg. Via ZOOM: Emily Klofft-Northwest Regional Planning Commission, Linda Seavey
Absent: Sarah Kjelleren, Carol Tremble, Terry Robinson
Public: Andy Julow – Lake Champlain Islands Economic Development Corp.

1. Called to order at 3:35 by David C.

2. Funds & Financial Reports
• P. Surprenant, South Hero Foundation Treasurer, reported a balance of $5,281.95 in the Foundation’s account.
• There was no report from the Town.
• D. Carter reported an account has been set up with Wells Fargo to receive stock donations.

3. Grant(s) Updates –
• Andy Julow reported that he supports the Meeting House Project being included on the Regional Prioritization Project List. There is a form to complete and has to be to Andy J. by Nov. 15,2022. S. Gregg and M. Harwood will work on updating the report started by S. Gregg. A. Julow explained that his Region can nominate up to ten (10) projects. The list then goes to the Legislature where they look at at the 120 nominated projects (12 regions x 10). They structure the grants and the applications open January sometime.
• Community Revitalization Grant: A. Julow described the Agency of Commerce and Community Development (ACCD) – Community Recovery and Revitalization Program: The Community Recovery and Revitalization Program aims to strengthen communities by reversing the harm caused by the COVID-19 pandemic through assistance with capital investments that will help businesses, non-profits, and municipalities recover, retain existing jobs, and spur economic growth. Program details will be released during the fall. We will announce them in our newsletter, and via webinars, etc. but please stay tuned by subscribing to our Economic Development newsletter which will make these announcements as they are finalized. Funds up to 20% of a project. Therefore, if our project is $2,000,000 it could fund $400,00. It is a reimbursement type of grant. Money would have to be spent by Dec 31,2023 or possibly 2024. More details will come in about this grant.
• Letters of support will be needed from; the Selectboard, Planning Commission, Historical Society, Granny’s Attic.
• Idea: if we knew by mid January we could get $400,000 grant we could go for a n article at Town Meeting for a bond to cover the balance. In the meantime, we would continue to raise fund privately to reduce tax-payer debt.
• Option: low interest bridge loan through USDARD
• Need: Grant Administrator. Who is the applicant? Would fall to Town Treasurer.
• E. Klofft stated it is time to hire or ask a volunteer to be Clerk of The Works and do on site project management.
• L. Seavey asked what type of reimbursable are they talking about?
• E. Klofft stated VCDP would have funding for environmental review.
• L. Seavey stated we need to have a timeline.
• A. Julow asked that his group have a walk-through of the building before our next meeting (Nov 15) after which he will prepare a report & update to present at the Nov 15 meeting.

3. Old Business
• Emily Klofft.-NRPC reported: She will continue to update the committee on progress of the amended grant contract with Patrick at VCDP. E. Klofft continues to work on the amendment to the A&S contract.
• Note : A&S is paid to date.
• Construction documents for Phase #1 will be ready by Jan 1,2023. E. Klofft estimated construction docs for phases 2 and 3 would cost 10% of the project or $100,000.
• M. Harwood reported on the Preservation Trust of VT Seminar at Grand Isle Lake House. See her report as attachment.
• Highlights: windows windows windows! Historic preservationists are adamant about windows…no vinyl! Repair rather than replace if possible. L. Seavey stated there is leeway in terms of window work and she has the experience with that.
• They prefer geothermal for heat/AC.
• South Hero Foundation sent out their fund-raising letter. Donations are starting to come in.

4. New Business:
• Schedule meeting with all the Grannies to update them and discuss MOU (which is being discussed in Executive Session at Oct 24th Selectboard meeting. R. Way said the Grannies would react well to being invited into another meeting and personally informed about the project updates and the MOU could be the reason for such a meeting. D. Carter will schedule.

5. Public Comment – none

6. Next Meeting – Tuesday, Nov 15 at 3:30 PM at the Town Office.

7. Adjourned at 4:30

Respectfully submitted by,
Sandy Gregg, Scribe

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Take aways from PTV Retreat October 11-12

Geothermal Heating and Cooling:

There was a lot of buzz about geothermal (GT) as energy source for heating and cooling historic preservation. Fletcher Free Library in Burlington, for instance, is planning on using it as they work on the historic part of the building.

Pros in favor of GT are that the Islands have a high water table so well digging would be relatively inexpensive. However, several wells would most likely be needed for a building of this size. Basically, wells are dug to ground water, which generally has a year-round 50-degree temperature. The water is used in water-to-air heat pumps to push warmed or cooled air into the building. As a result, there are no external units like in air-to-air heat pumps such as those used in the Library. This is a benefit in that GT does not interfere with the historic envelope of the building.

The water is pumped through piping in the ground and then into the building. Would need to determine amount of land needed to accommodate the piping, which is all underground.

One site says that, for a home, costs average between $18-$30K for installation of GT so would be comparably higher for larger building. This covers installation, indoor units, and underground loops. Expect payback in 3-4 years on average. Since there is no heating system in the Meeting House, there is no need to try to retrofit a hot air system, and forego the benefits of air conditioning.

There will be a need for some solar panels to cover electrical usage in addition to the GT. Possibly the roof surface of the addition will be adequate for the load. However, we don’t yet have a firm handle on water energy consumption for the building might be. One disadvantage of using solar on the MH is that the roof on the addition is probably not large enough to provide enough wattage to cover enough of the electrical costs each year.

Suggest we spend time now investigating GT and solar as possibilities in case wells could be dug as part of digging foundation, which could provide cost savings. Generally need at least ¼ acre of land, but piping can be looped to keep space usage down.

Possibly have potential donor who has already expressed interest in Meeting House serving as an example of how energy efficiency can be linked with historic preservation. But will need lead time.

Recommend contacting Manosh, as they do GT systems. Chevalier can drill the wells but not sure if they are a one-stop shop or not. There was little known about which firms can handle GT installations. Suggest also contacting a mechanical engineer to determine overall energy load for the building and  a hydrologist for feasibility for GT on the site. There are vendors listed on PTV site and perhaps A&S or EV can suggest some to us.

As an aside, Vermont Energy Education Partnership provides help for organizations that want to educate kids etc. about renewable energy.

General information gained:

Met guy name Alex Tolstoi, and have his card. He’s a contractor and has worked as a consultant for PTV and the State Historical folks. Knows Matt Bartle, maybe knows Nate? Not sure. He offered to take a look at the windows. I will contact him to see when he might arrange a visit to help us.

Working in phases can help make sure that building is not over insulated, which can cause problems down the line. Lisa Ryan mentioned the Robert Sincerbeaux Fund, which is a small grant source ($500, which must be matched 1:1) to pay for a consultant to help determine right phasing of our project as well as the priority order.

Lisa Ryan sent a lot of white papers and other information that I have yet to review

Historic buildings, if taken care of, last longer than new construction and provide visual landmarks for communities. It is also far more ecologically, and economically, sound to restore old buildings as raxing them can create an environmental nightmare. Typically, old buildings, and their components, last far longer than their new counterparts.

Need to hire a contractor that understands historical preservation is a process.

Suggestion was made to purchase the book Storm Windows by Steve Jordan, a window restorer from Rochester NY. Has a company called Pain in the Glass. Also has another book, The Window Sash Bible, about repair and restoration of old and historic wood windows.

Historic wooden windows, if restored properly, will last longer than new windows. This point was made repeatedly by several key people at the meeting, including Laura Treischmann from Vermont Historic Preservation.

For wall insulation, they all favor something call rockwool, which can be blown in or place in walls and ceilings in bats. It’s a natural product and not the potentially lethal pink glass stuff. Foam seems to be a dirty word in historic preservation circles as it cannot be undone. Once it’s sprayed on, it’s there for good.

Caitlin Corkins runs the state historic preservation grants and the tax credits. Preservation grants are annual (deadline just passed October 3) and once you get a grant need to take two years off before the next one. $20,000 max which must be matched. These grants can cover window restoration, tin ceiling work, would be funding to help with tail end of foundation work, but work needs to be complete within a year of the grant. If we had applied this year, the funds would have to have been spent by December 2023. If we apply next year, may be able to access them but unclear about whether they will fund work in progress. Her recommendation is to make sure you know your order of prioritization and are ready to move on using the grant.

She is also in charge of the State Tax credits have much higher potential for funding. But in order for us to access them, we would need them to be awarded not to a Town but rather a non-profit or for-profit entity which is at least leasing the building. Could be a possibility for the Meeting House/Foundation but would need ironclad agreement. This is how libraries often get access to this funding. Tax credits can be used for facades as well as code improvements such as electrical, accessibility, etc. This has a January 16^th deadline and there is more money available now than there has been in the past.

Experience from one organization is that, when restoring an interior, take acoustics into consideration. It’s the old German Community Hall in Burlington. They found their new hardwood floor created a lot of noise inside the building. Recommend contacting an acoustics expert for advice on dealing with large open space with hard, reflective surfaces such as a wood floor and tin ceiling. The original Meeting House most likely had pews etc. inside that would have dampened noise.

Efficiency Vermont can be a one stop shop for questions, needs, etc. Mostly they offer tax incentives etc. but also have technical experts who can help.

Once we start sealing the building need to test for radon.

We’ll need a window analysis to determine what next steps should be for the windows. Getting a visit from Alex Tolstoi may help with this.

In my presentation, I mentioned the need to determine the right fit for energy efficiency, but that the building is currently a blank slate – like Net Zero because there is not heat or running water (interesting that people were surprised that we have buildings in South Hero that have no running water …) Also mentioned the “elephant in the attic” and this generated most of the discussion. Received suggestions for dealing with the rumor mill such as Active Listening Training and guided discussions with parties at odds. Someone named Joan Gamble does these. Suggestion made to try to involve the inner circle of Granny’s and make extra outreach to them to bridge the communication gap and make them feel included, valued and heard.

Christine Graham can help provide support such as preparing a Town for a big bond vote. She has been very successful in several places where small towns wanted to pass $Million + bonds.

ALSO: Potential for some grant money, though South Hero may not qualify, and definitely low interest loans, from USDA Rural Development. This type of funding may be helpful if we receive a large Community Grant from Regional Development ARPA funds since this is a reimbursement program.

Town of South Hero

Meeting House – Preserve & Revitalize Project

 

Date:   TUESDAY, SEPT 27, 2022

Time:  3:30 PM In person at Town Office or via ZOOM

Attendees: David Carter-Chair, Michael Carroll, Pamela Surprenant, Beth Curtis, Mary Harwood,                 Sandy Gregg.  Zoom:  Sarah Kjelleren, Emily Kloft-NRPC

Absent: Linda Seavey, Robin Way, Carroll Tremble, Terry Robinson

 

1. Called to order at 3:32 by David C.

 

2. Grant(s) Updates –
   • Emily K.-NRPC reported: she will communicate this week with Rebecca at A&S that they are a go to have construction docs by Jan 1,2023. Emily will get a contract amendment to David Carter by the end of this week.
   • Emily got requisition submitted for the first round of VCDP grant funds.
   • Mary H. reported she had emailed Lisa Ryan at Preservation Trust of VT that we will have construction docs for Phase 1 by Jan 1,2023. Mary also asked Lisa how long to will the turn-around be from NPS.
   • Mary H. reported she has identified “com” as a potential Project Management software to track project progress including benchmark dates, person tasked etc. This will be finalized with the Town.

 

3. Old Business

• Donor Contacts: David C.reported meetings have begun and responses have been positive.
• David C. reported an account has been set-up with Wells Fargo for the South Hero Foundation, Inc. 501(c)(3) to receive stock donations. No capital gains tax will be required to be paid by either Donor of SHF and David arranged for there to be NO fees charged by Wells Fargo since it is a non-profit.
• Fall Donor mailing through the South Hero Foundation hit a snag and is waiting for the Post Office to approve their non-profit status. The wait could be weeks. To get the mailing out the group decided to go ahead and send through Minuteman Press. Additional cost is ~$250. Mary H. will follow-through.
• MOU Update: David C. reported that the document is being worked on and that the language is very important. The language needs to be respectful of the Grannies operation while at the same time allowing for flexibility due to contingencies that the construction phase will present. The Grannies need to be thinking about alternate location(s) during the construction phase.
• ARPA FUNDS: Possible funding for the Meeting House project. Amount to be determined by the Select Board.

 

4. New Business: Sarah K. Requested Donor Packet Info – Sandy G. will provide.

Sarah K. also said she would like to work on visuals for the Rec park idea.

5. Public Comment – none
6. Next Meeting – Tuesday, Oct 18 at 3:30 PM at the Town Office.
7. Adjourned at 4:25

 

Respectfully submitted by,

Sandy Gregg, Scribe

 

Town of South Hero

Meeting House – Preserve & Revitalize Project

 

Date:   TUESDAY, SEPT 13, 2022

Time:  3:30 PM In person at Town Office or via ZOOM  –  Join Zoom Meeting

 

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83188908974?pwd=QXRzSlFiVFpQK3dseERna2tlUzZDQT09

 

Attendees:David Carter-Chair, Michael Carroll, Pamela Surprenant, Beth Curtis, Mary Harwood,              Robin Way, Emily Kloft-NRPC, Sandy Gregg

Absent: Sarah Kjelleren, Linda Seavey

Note: Town computer could not connect to Zoom link. Apologies to anyone trying to Zoom in.

 

1. Called to order at 3:35 by David C.

 

2. Funds & Financials Reports:
   • Town Funds = $155,801.58
   • South Hero Foundation = $4,881
   • Bruhn Grant to come $100,000

 

Grant(s) Updates –

• Emily K.-NRPC reported: she communicated with Rebecca at A&S and A&S can have construction docs by Jan 1,2023.
• In the meantime Emily got requisition information from Kim Julow to submit for the first round of VCDP grant funds.
• Reminder: Bruhn Grant requires that before going out to bid for construction the construction docs need to go to Lisa Ryan for NPS approval. How long will NPS approval take? Lisa Ryan may be able to suggest a wait time.
• Bruhn Grant Progress Report due by end of this week. Mary H. reported she communicated with Lisa Ryan and this report is due by Friday Sept 16. Mary H. expressed frustration trying to complete a time-line question. Mary H. will submit what she has by Friday Sept 16.
• Emily K. stated a bid process can be done in as little as 6 weeks.
• With so many variables and Bruhn grant construction docs approval timeframe up in the air is a 2023 construction season even reasonable?
• Emily K. will communicate with A&S to proceed with creating construction docs. The cost of ~$33,000 will be covered by either an amendment to the VCDP grant (Emily K to apply on behalf of South Hero) or by Meeting House funds from the Town.
• Beth C. requested that if construction is to start in 2023 it is best for the Granny’s Attic operation that it not start until Early Oct 2023. All depends on grant approvals and contractors falling into place. The project could be delayed until build season 2024.
• Mary H. reported she has identified a Northern Borders grant round (they funded water expansion at BayView Crossing) and a VHCB grant opportunity as well. She will stay on top of these and report back at the next meeting.
• To summarize Emily K tasks: 1. She will work with Martha Taylor-Varney, Kim Julow and Ross Brown to submit paid invoice information to the VCDP grant for 1st round requisition of funds; 2. She will finalize the grant amendment application with VCDP; 3. She will communicate with A&S to start work on the construction docs; 4. She will begin an update to the A&S contract with the Town of South Hero to include the construction docs.

 

3. Old Business

• David C. announced the meetings with individual potential donors are being scheduled with the first one to be held this Thursday 9/15.
• Sandy G. will get Donor Packets distributed
• Fall Donor mailing through the South Hero Foundation is due to hit the mail by the end of Sept.
• The “FPF Rumor” issue: after brief discussion the piece composed and presented by Michael C. will be posted in FPF in response. Thank you, Michael, nicely done.
• MOU Update: David C. reported that the document is being worked on and the language is very important. The language needs to be respectful of the Grannies operation while at the same time allowing for flexibility due to contingencies that the construction phase will present. The Grannies need to be thinking about alternate location(s) during the construction phase. It was suggested that the Grannies post on FPF requesting suggestions from the community for interim places that they could use for storage and/or retail operation.

 

4. New Business:

• Invoice from Harwood Consulting was presented and gone through. Total due is $1,192.50 and covers work done on: review of construction docs, update email, meeting prep, meetings and meeting follow-up, email to donors, LGL work and Donor Packet Update piece, Fall mailing prep, and time spent setting up Tech Soup (QuickBooks purchase). Motion by Michael C. to approve the invoice and seconded by Pamela S. The vote was unanimous. David C. will give the approved invoice to Kim J. Treasurer.
• Sat Sept 17, 11 AM-1 PM there is an Anniversary Celebration at Keeler Bay Variety and they have selected the Meeting House Project as their fund-raiser for this year! David C. Sandy G., Mary H. and possibly Pamela S. and Linda S. will be on hand to chat with folks about the project.

 

5. Public Comment – none

 

6. Next Meeting – Tuesday, Sept 27 at 3:30 PM at the Town Office.

 

7. Adjourned at 4:25

 

Respectfully submitted by,

Sandy Gregg, Scribe