Town of South Hero
Meeting House – Preserve & Revitalize Project
Date: TUESDAY, Oct 18, 2022
Time: 3:30 PM In person at Town Office or via ZOOM – Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83188908974?pwd=QXRzSlFiVFpQK3dseERna2tlUzZDQT09
Attendees:David Carter-Chair, Michael Carroll, Robin Way, Pamela Surprenant, Beth Curtis, Mary Harwood, Sandy Gregg. Via ZOOM: Emily Klofft-Northwest Regional Planning Commission, Linda Seavey
Absent: Sarah Kjelleren, Carol Tremble, Terry Robinson
Public: Andy Julow – Lake Champlain Islands Economic Development Corp.
1. Called to order at 3:35 by David C.
2. Funds & Financial Reports
• P. Surprenant, South Hero Foundation Treasurer, reported a balance of $5,281.95 in the Foundation’s account.
• There was no report from the Town.
• D. Carter reported an account has been set up with Wells Fargo to receive stock donations.
3. Grant(s) Updates –
• Andy Julow reported that he supports the Meeting House Project being included on the Regional Prioritization Project List. There is a form to complete and has to be to Andy J. by Nov. 15,2022. S. Gregg and M. Harwood will work on updating the report started by S. Gregg. A. Julow explained that his Region can nominate up to ten (10) projects. The list then goes to the Legislature where they look at at the 120 nominated projects (12 regions x 10). They structure the grants and the applications open January sometime.
• Community Revitalization Grant: A. Julow described the Agency of Commerce and Community Development (ACCD) – Community Recovery and Revitalization Program: The Community Recovery and Revitalization Program aims to strengthen communities by reversing the harm caused by the COVID-19 pandemic through assistance with capital investments that will help businesses, non-profits, and municipalities recover, retain existing jobs, and spur economic growth. Program details will be released during the fall. We will announce them in our newsletter, and via webinars, etc. but please stay tuned by subscribing to our Economic Development newsletter which will make these announcements as they are finalized. Funds up to 20% of a project. Therefore, if our project is $2,000,000 it could fund $400,00. It is a reimbursement type of grant. Money would have to be spent by Dec 31,2023 or possibly 2024. More details will come in about this grant.
• Letters of support will be needed from; the Selectboard, Planning Commission, Historical Society, Granny’s Attic.
• Idea: if we knew by mid January we could get $400,000 grant we could go for a n article at Town Meeting for a bond to cover the balance. In the meantime, we would continue to raise fund privately to reduce tax-payer debt.
• Option: low interest bridge loan through USDARD
• Need: Grant Administrator. Who is the applicant? Would fall to Town Treasurer.
• E. Klofft stated it is time to hire or ask a volunteer to be Clerk of The Works and do on site project management.
• L. Seavey asked what type of reimbursable are they talking about?
• E. Klofft stated VCDP would have funding for environmental review.
• L. Seavey stated we need to have a timeline.
• A. Julow asked that his group have a walk-through of the building before our next meeting (Nov 15) after which he will prepare a report & update to present at the Nov 15 meeting.
3. Old Business
• Emily Klofft.-NRPC reported: She will continue to update the committee on progress of the amended grant contract with Patrick at VCDP. E. Klofft continues to work on the amendment to the A&S contract.
• Note : A&S is paid to date.
• Construction documents for Phase #1 will be ready by Jan 1,2023. E. Klofft estimated construction docs for phases 2 and 3 would cost 10% of the project or $100,000.
• M. Harwood reported on the Preservation Trust of VT Seminar at Grand Isle Lake House. See her report as attachment.
• Highlights: windows windows windows! Historic preservationists are adamant about windows…no vinyl! Repair rather than replace if possible. L. Seavey stated there is leeway in terms of window work and she has the experience with that.
• They prefer geothermal for heat/AC.
• South Hero Foundation sent out their fund-raising letter. Donations are starting to come in.
4. New Business:
• Schedule meeting with all the Grannies to update them and discuss MOU (which is being discussed in Executive Session at Oct 24th Selectboard meeting. R. Way said the Grannies would react well to being invited into another meeting and personally informed about the project updates and the MOU could be the reason for such a meeting. D. Carter will schedule.
5. Public Comment – none
6. Next Meeting – Tuesday, Nov 15 at 3:30 PM at the Town Office.
7. Adjourned at 4:30
Respectfully submitted by,
Sandy Gregg, Scribe
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Take aways from PTV Retreat October 11-12
Geothermal Heating and Cooling:
There was a lot of buzz about geothermal (GT) as energy source for heating and cooling historic preservation. Fletcher Free Library in Burlington, for instance, is planning on using it as they work on the historic part of the building.
Pros in favor of GT are that the Islands have a high water table so well digging would be relatively inexpensive. However, several wells would most likely be needed for a building of this size. Basically, wells are dug to ground water, which generally has a year-round 50-degree temperature. The water is used in water-to-air heat pumps to push warmed or cooled air into the building. As a result, there are no external units like in air-to-air heat pumps such as those used in the Library. This is a benefit in that GT does not interfere with the historic envelope of the building.
The water is pumped through piping in the ground and then into the building. Would need to determine amount of land needed to accommodate the piping, which is all underground.
One site says that, for a home, costs average between $18-$30K for installation of GT so would be comparably higher for larger building. This covers installation, indoor units, and underground loops. Expect payback in 3-4 years on average. Since there is no heating system in the Meeting House, there is no need to try to retrofit a hot air system, and forego the benefits of air conditioning.
There will be a need for some solar panels to cover electrical usage in addition to the GT. Possibly the roof surface of the addition will be adequate for the load. However, we don’t yet have a firm handle on water energy consumption for the building might be. One disadvantage of using solar on the MH is that the roof on the addition is probably not large enough to provide enough wattage to cover enough of the electrical costs each year.
Suggest we spend time now investigating GT and solar as possibilities in case wells could be dug as part of digging foundation, which could provide cost savings. Generally need at least ¼ acre of land, but piping can be looped to keep space usage down.
Possibly have potential donor who has already expressed interest in Meeting House serving as an example of how energy efficiency can be linked with historic preservation. But will need lead time.
Recommend contacting Manosh, as they do GT systems. Chevalier can drill the wells but not sure if they are a one-stop shop or not. There was little known about which firms can handle GT installations. Suggest also contacting a mechanical engineer to determine overall energy load for the building and a hydrologist for feasibility for GT on the site. There are vendors listed on PTV site and perhaps A&S or EV can suggest some to us.
As an aside, Vermont Energy Education Partnership provides help for organizations that want to educate kids etc. about renewable energy.
General information gained:
Met guy name Alex Tolstoi, and have his card. He’s a contractor and has worked as a consultant for PTV and the State Historical folks. Knows Matt Bartle, maybe knows Nate? Not sure. He offered to take a look at the windows. I will contact him to see when he might arrange a visit to help us.
Working in phases can help make sure that building is not over insulated, which can cause problems down the line. Lisa Ryan mentioned the Robert Sincerbeaux Fund, which is a small grant source ($500, which must be matched 1:1) to pay for a consultant to help determine right phasing of our project as well as the priority order.
Lisa Ryan sent a lot of white papers and other information that I have yet to review
Historic buildings, if taken care of, last longer than new construction and provide visual landmarks for communities. It is also far more ecologically, and economically, sound to restore old buildings as raxing them can create an environmental nightmare. Typically, old buildings, and their components, last far longer than their new counterparts.
Need to hire a contractor that understands historical preservation is a process.
Suggestion was made to purchase the book Storm Windows by Steve Jordan, a window restorer from Rochester NY. Has a company called Pain in the Glass. Also has another book, The Window Sash Bible, about repair and restoration of old and historic wood windows.
Historic wooden windows, if restored properly, will last longer than new windows. This point was made repeatedly by several key people at the meeting, including Laura Treischmann from Vermont Historic Preservation.
For wall insulation, they all favor something call rockwool, which can be blown in or place in walls and ceilings in bats. It’s a natural product and not the potentially lethal pink glass stuff. Foam seems to be a dirty word in historic preservation circles as it cannot be undone. Once it’s sprayed on, it’s there for good.
Caitlin Corkins runs the state historic preservation grants and the tax credits. Preservation grants are annual (deadline just passed October 3) and once you get a grant need to take two years off before the next one. $20,000 max which must be matched. These grants can cover window restoration, tin ceiling work, would be funding to help with tail end of foundation work, but work needs to be complete within a year of the grant. If we had applied this year, the funds would have to have been spent by December 2023. If we apply next year, may be able to access them but unclear about whether they will fund work in progress. Her recommendation is to make sure you know your order of prioritization and are ready to move on using the grant.
She is also in charge of the State Tax credits have much higher potential for funding. But in order for us to access them, we would need them to be awarded not to a Town but rather a non-profit or for-profit entity which is at least leasing the building. Could be a possibility for the Meeting House/Foundation but would need ironclad agreement. This is how libraries often get access to this funding. Tax credits can be used for facades as well as code improvements such as electrical, accessibility, etc. This has a January 16th deadline and there is more money available now than there has been in the past.
Experience from one organization is that, when restoring an interior, take acoustics into consideration. It’s the old German Community Hall in Burlington. They found their new hardwood floor created a lot of noise inside the building. Recommend contacting an acoustics expert for advice on dealing with large open space with hard, reflective surfaces such as a wood floor and tin ceiling. The original Meeting House most likely had pews etc. inside that would have dampened noise.
Efficiency Vermont can be a one stop shop for questions, needs, etc. Mostly they offer tax incentives etc. but also have technical experts who can help.
Once we start sealing the building need to test for radon.
We’ll need a window analysis to determine what next steps should be for the windows. Getting a visit from Alex Tolstoi may help with this.
In my presentation, I mentioned the need to determine the right fit for energy efficiency, but that the building is currently a blank slate – like Net Zero because there is not heat or running water (interesting that people were surprised that we have buildings in South Hero that have no running water …) Also mentioned the “elephant in the attic” and this generated most of the discussion. Received suggestions for dealing with the rumor mill such as Active Listening Training and guided discussions with parties at odds. Someone named Joan Gamble does these. Suggestion made to try to involve the inner circle of Granny’s and make extra outreach to them to bridge the communication gap and make them feel included, valued and heard.
Christine Graham can help provide support such as preparing a Town for a big bond vote. She has been very successful in several places where small towns wanted to pass $Million + bonds.
ALSO: Potential for some grant money, though South Hero may not qualify, and definitely low interest loans, from USDA Rural Development. This type of funding may be helpful if we receive a large Community Grant from Regional Development ARPA funds since this is a reimbursement program.